How bloody depressing.
The year 2003 and we have LESS choices.
Thank god for retrogaming!

Now I get it. Right, I also can't quite feel like it if there are more than one player characters (but also feel lonely otherwise )

High level AD&D campaigns IMO don't play as well as low level ones because the gameplay becomesunrealistic due to exaggerated character stats and spells therefore you can't reason everything: "Ok I have 4hp as a mage now if this kobold hits me I'll die but I can magic missile him now" as opposed to "Hell I must cast that time stop spell and summon another hakeashar or the lich will kick me out of this plane for good"

I bet you'll like planescape: torment, it's nearly an adventure title, just a little fighting is required.

Burseg: I fully agree that we should first determine what makes a roleplaying game. In my opinion, a roleplaying game cannot be decided on character stats or the engine it's using. For me, a roleplaying game is one where I can actually play a role of the main character.

For me, it's impossible to play a role of a character if I actually see him. I either feel like God who direct a character (Fallout, Arcanum; both of which I consider to be adventure games for this reason) or like playing a strategy game (BG, IWD, Jagged Alliance). Only first-person games give me the opportunity to become a character or a group of characters in a game. Then, it's only a question of interface; as long as I'm comfortable with it I don't even notice I'm sitting at a computer and just keep playing (this rules out all FPS and action titles to be considered roleplaying games).

As such, lately there have been very few good roleplaying games. The last one is a year old by now; Arx Fatalis. I still keep playing it, as I keep playing Morrowind, Might and Magic VI and Wizardry 8. I like Fallout and Arcanum, too; I just never really felt like being part of the gaming world. I also like strategies, and Jagged Alliance and its sequels never leave my hard drive. However, I never managed to get out of Chapter 2 in Baldur's Gate, due to a combat system that was way too difficult for me (even when pausing the combat), and this is why I've been avoiding infinity engine games ever since.

I don't see the point, fallout was isometric and it's developers later made the baldur's gate's infinity engine. BG1 was such a hit that other companies tried to copy BG in some way (pool of radiance) and naturally, the engine was used in other games published by same company, interplay (icewind dale) That's basically how today's RPG games are mainly isometric. Planescape: Torment is also made with infinity engine but it's very different than baldur's gate in any way other than fights and stats system. BG was only a PC hit, isometric games became popular with PC, no relation with consoles. Genres are changing, some are becoming simply obsolete depending on people's expectations.

Platformers are dead, let's accept it, platformers lost what kept them alive, being the _action_ genre. A pity for us who enjoyed the refined playability of old platformers compared to modern fps. This is the result of a natural process of the evolution of computers. It's now easier to achieve realism (relatively) and many people value realism (in better words, illusion of reality) over good gameplay because many people don't know how to enjoy a game under it's graphical skin. This is not related to being a console gamer or not. Younger PC users don't like the old ways, simple as that.

Now we should rethink on what makes a true role playing game, a complex stat syetem or the game potential to make player feel as if he was the part of the game world. Choosing the first one leads to absurd results like a strong looking half-ogre that'll instantly die with a hit because of having too low constution. Choosing the second however, may kill RPG genre for good, blending it into FPS. We need a working combination, a stat system that doesn't conflict with the visual elements within the game but supports them and a psyhical engine that can effect the statistics without dice rolls. Such a game is yet to be seen after the "realism" craze. Closest example I can give is the "creature" in black&white.

Edited by Burseg at 13:48 on October, 10th 2003

Turn based RPGs aren't required to be better than "real time" ones. Also applies to game's being first person or isometric.

Morrowind: Good (although unbalanced) first person real time RPG

M&MVI: Good turn based first person rpg

Last two M&M games: Turn based, fp, utter crap

Baldur's Gate: Good isometric RPG, very good storyline, not turn based but NOT real time either.

Neverwinter Nights: Unentertaining, even if you don't agree you'll not object that it's nowhere near baldur's gate 1.

Wizardry 8: Good ideas wasted on this turn based torture!

In fact Baldur's Gate is hardly a real time game. It's still based on turns that last 6 seconds (on original bg, not sure how it's modified in later versions of the engine) and number of hits and actions a character can make depends on AD&D rules. It's tedious to press end turn everytime besides the game can be configured to pause at the end of turn. Modern RPGs have to differ from pen&paper ones. Actually systems calculating the probability of the weapon's hit can be abandoned altogether if this can be calculated dynamically by the engine (not possible in isometric games but would be useful in first person ones like morrowind) As stat system gets complex, the plyer is isolated from the visual world of the game which contradicts the idea of playing the role of the game character. Eye of the beholder was very entertaining but it was more action than a true AD&D clone. A game's quality depends on how entertaining it is, not on simple features like the game's being real time or not. Remember the fight scenes on old and great goldbox RPGs, they were isometric!

Additionally, today's RPG games differ from each other far more than any group of games in a genre. (Difference between icewind dale 2 and arx fatalis > difference between unreal tournament 2003 and medal of honor (gameplay-wise))

Edited by Burseg at 13:18 on October, 10th 2003

You should stop watching Beavis and Butthead.

Tapuak: I've got no idea where you want to insert the dics, and I don't wanna know

Anyway, as for the games, there's this quite popular console game called Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Dead or Alive is another beat-em-up game, full of female characters. Now the developers put them into really tiny bikinis and have them play volleyball against each other. From a business standpoint, this was a masterful move; the game is outselling the original game by a large margin. How much lower can you go?

11 words: Got the game from a collection, never even inserted the disc.

Two words: Tomb Raider.

Yawn... How low can one go?

NetDanzr: Sure, SNES is a console, but I'm quite surprised there should be that many people searching for such an 'old' game ('94 I think) and not for newer stuff. As for the 'nude fighting', why don't you recommend the game shown on the attachment to those people?

pepsiman: If I understand you correctly now, you do support computer games being for children and not for adults. After all, when adults play computer games, it's really out of their league, isn't it? Needless to say I disagree.

If the teacher connects himself to the students, only through the games, soon noone will take him seriously anymore (Must've been tired ).

As for geeks, i have no idea what it looked like a few years ago, i thought they were 20 and always drunk.

No. There's lots of people who'd like to play these games when the characters (presumably the female ones) don't have any clothes on.

Huh? What's that supposed to mean? Being nude while playing Mortal Kombat?

Well, isn't SNES a console?

Yeah... and isn't "Shaq-Fu" a SNES game?

Um... There can't be THAT many people that search for a game containing a basketball player that knows some form of kung-fu. It must be a really weird site

For illustration, these are the most common searches for September on another review Web site I help to maintain. Please note that the big thing there are consoles (I'm pretty much the only regular PC reviewer there), so all searches are applicable to console games:

soul calibur nude
pleading the 5th
soul calibur ivy nude
sexy video games
can i play daddy? return to castle wolfenstein
mortal kombat nude
deaths from video games
shaq-fu

Now this is confusing me. Are you just saying that in relation to newer, more 'childish' games, or any games at all?

That's actually a behaviour I'd relate to 'old-time geeks' more than kids of today. But then again, I might not be too well informed about that 'generation'...

How could you dare disturb us?

You're right, in the past few years i've seen many more "old" people playing games.

It's funny, because especially from the old people you'd expect "class", but my english teacher was writing down cheats for "vice city" in class today (i think he's 35).

For all i care he can play doom3 when it comes out, but i was really wierded out. All my classmates were in complete awe of him, they called him "cool", and when students call teachers cool, then there's definitly something wrong.

And another odd thing is, that people talk more about videogames than sex! The kiddies in my school are real proud of spending 7 hrs a deay on a 17" screen. Like little fishies in their tanks.

I've never seen fishes who were proud of being in a tank.

(got myself an account , hope you guys don't mind having "kids" ruining the interlectual atmosphere here )

Edited by pepsiman at 23:25 on October, 07th 2003