Packages: There are basically three 'big' packaging system in the Linux world. RPM is used by RedHat (hence the name), Mandrake and SuSE (amongst others), DEB is used by Debian and all its offsprings and TGZ is used by Slackware and alike.
Slackware's TGZ are in fact just packed binaries without any 'misc' information like package dependencies, version number and so on. That makes it the simplest of all the packages. Any package will install without complaining, but not all will run without complaining after installation.
RPM has dependency checking, but it always checks for exact versions (for example it says 'this package depends on package xy, version 1.2'). So if you have a newer version of the package it depends on installed, the installation will fail.
DEB checks dependencies using the >= operator, so it doesn't have this problem. It also has facilities to automatically download and install all required dependencies, so you don't have to worry about them at all anymore.

Upgrading X11 / fonts: There are many ways to upgrade the X server. The easiest would be to get the current packages of Xfree86 for your OS and use your packaging system to upgrade (RPM has such a function I think). You can also compile a newer version yourself, be sure to switch on Xft support then. The actual package providing the 'antialiased' fonts is libxft2, so that has to be installed as well.
As for 'making the fonts normal again', I'm not sure what you mean. It depends on the application. For example, what is stopping you from choosing different (non-antialiased) fonts in Firebird? Unlike in Windows, there is no 'central' setting for these things in Linux. It's all done on 'per application' basis. Some Desktop Environments may pretend to have such a common setting, but I'm not sure about that. Which DE/WM are you using?

Configuration: You could also try a 'netinstall' CD image of the 'testing' branch of Debian. I haven't tried that myself, but it's supposedly a lot easier, and the packages are also more up-to-date.

Haven't used an OS that has a non-RPM package system (besides Windows ), so I can't really judge whether it's worse than others or not.


So? And how do you do the upgrade? And most important, how do you upgrade to make the fonts normal again?


I don't think my knowledge is good enough to do a lot of the configuration by hand. Therefore, that would be a reason not to use it (yet). I think I'm going to try one of the other versions you mentioned to get an impression.

I'm not trying to prove anything to you, but to everyone - you're just a random target

I tried Mandrake (9.0 or something) not so long ago, and I can't say I really liked it much. Having a 'central configuration tool' like Drakconf is certainly nice, but I just can't get myself to accept the downsides of the RPM package system (read: really bad dependency checking for exact versions instead of >=).

There is no need to upgrade your whole OS for something like antialiased fonts by the way. That's not a feature of the OS, but of the X11 server. Upgrading that part would have been enough.

I'm currently running Debian. The only problem I see with it is to get the base system configured properly. The normal Debian installer isn't for the feeble minded! Hardware detection isn't completely up-to-date (like the whole 'stable' branch). There is much configuring 'by hand' (in text files) to do. Once it's running, it's the greatest distribution I've tried. The package system is perfect, you'll hardly find any software which isn't available pre-compiled and readily available for Debian! Automated (and intelligent) dependency checking included. For modem users, it might not be so great, though, because all upgrading is of course done via Internet directly.

To get a fully working expandable Debian system, there are several alternatives: Bonzai (tried it briefly, not so great, because it still leaves a lot of the configuration to be desired), Libranet (commercial distribution, older version can be downloaded for free and then upgraded via Internet; works fine, includes an additional 'Adminpanel' like Drakconf; downside: installs some stuff without asking) or Morphix ('live-cd' distribution, but can also be installed to hd with two or three mouse clicks; probably the best choice to get a Debian system the easy way; hardware detection went perfectly on my system, apart from the video driver - it loaded a generic one by default).

I mostly prefer "slim" software instead of bloated one, too, and so far, I've been able to find it for most everyday tasks. You don't need to prove it for me, I know that most "old" systems are sufficient.

As for the OS, I'm quite satisfied with Mandrake for "working" and Windows 98 for gaming. The only reason why I would switch my OS again are those damn "antialised" fonts that were introduced in Mandrake 9.1...

Debian looks pretty interesting. Anyone here who has ever used it?

Edited by Tapuak at 17:25 on October, 20th 2003

The autoscroll plugin in firebird .6 (I don't know if they improved it in .7) doesn't work properly while the page is loading (which is about the only time I use it). It only goes down to the bottom of the page at that moment, then stops until you move the mouse again. In other browsers, you can start it scrolling while the page starts loading, then forget it it, and by the time the page is finished it'll be scrolled all the way to the bottom. I get impatient with slow loading pages and don't like to either wait till it fully loads before scrolling down, or scrolling down in increments as the page slowly loads, that's about the only time I find the autoscroll useful.

Even better than regular gLinks: Hacked Links. Currently still very hard to install, but it works absolutely amazing!

Firebird does have some problems. The most notable one is the bug in the HTTP Authentification method used by some password restricted areas.

These other browsers I just mentioned of course aren't meant to replace Firebird as my regular browser. None of them can can anywhere near that. I'm always looking for the greatest extremely 'light' apps, though. Part of this is of course a geekish satisfaction to try these completely non-mass-market compatible programs. Another part
is my crusade to prove any 'obsolete' computer is absolutely enough to fulfill normal everyday tasks. Last but not least, there is my quest for the perfect 'base' operating system which comes with a basic installation size as small as possible, but still providing the user with all common features needed these days. This is the closest I found so far, but still not perfect...

Ads are not acceptable for me, because a browser isn't something that runs in the backgorund. It's simply a waste of space in my opinion. From the perspective of the Opera programmers, it's alright if they think that's the way to make money, but not for me.

Dillo is okay, haven't tried gLinks yet. The "problem" why I don't check other browsers as often as in the past is that Firebird doesn't have a real disadvantage.

While the ads are definitely a major downside, I didn't mind them for some time. Recent versions (6-7) have become extremely ugly and bloated, though. Opera 5 was the best browser at its time, but it seems to be over

I'm just trying out gLinks by the way. Using it to make this post, and it's really nice so far Not as good as Dillo, though.

Well, Firebird has both: middle click on a link = new tab, middle click somewhere else = autoscroll. But I don't use it very often either, only when I'm even too lazy to move the mouse wheel.



Opera is out of the race because of its ads anyway.

I don't really see how it can be done any different than in Firebird, but then again, your Mozilla/Firebird versions all seem to be very screwy (see the 'local files in address line' discussion), so I guess I'll believe it doesn't work very well for you

Edit: I just tried it in Opera 7, and its clearly inferior there for one simple reason: The cursor always jumps to the centre of the screen when using the middle button which makes it very irritating.

Edited by Mr Creosote at 15:28 on October, 20th 2003

Most browsers that don't have the middle click=new tab feature have autoscroll instead, unfortunately most browsers that do have middle click=new tab do not have autoscroll. I used autoscroll a lot in IE before I switched to mozilla and was disappointed that mozilla didn't have autoscroll. At first I was glad when they made the plugin for firebird, but after using it for a while, I found that it didn't work as well as autoscroll does in other browsers, and have since disabled it.

In short, autoscroll itself is good, firebird's autoscroll is not so good.

It is in regular 0.7. After playing around with it a bit, I doubt I'll adopt it for regular use, though.

Is the autoscroll fearture included in 0.7? So far, it was only available as an extension...

Thanks, I never knew about that option

Autoscroll is when you use a wheel mouse and middle click on the page to get the double arrow icon, then the page will automatically scroll up when you move the mouse up (and continue scrolling until you stop it), or down when you move the mouse down.

You aren't talking about "Phoenity Christmas", are you?

At least it's not "Win-XP-kindergarten-style" like most other themes.

That one's ugly anyway - no need to upgrade it

Edit: Looking over the list of all available themes again, I must say it's not that ugly - compared to all the other crap

Edited by Mr Creosote at 19:57 on October, 19th 2003

Urgh... it's not compatible with my current theme (Phonity Modern) at the moment, so I'll stick to 0.61 for a while...

Update: Breeze has now been made compatible with Firebird 0.7, so I've upgraded Now if I only knew what 'autoscroll' was...

Edited by Mr Creosote at 19:12 on October, 19th 2003