The invasion has begun. I only wish for one thing: that it's over again soon and people have to suffer as little as possible. Naive, I know

Uhm. Sorry, but somehow I really doubt that the US is going to take any refugees. Not now, when every non-American is considered a terrorist.
And yeah, the most poor people cannot afford to seek refuge in Europe or US. Instead they will seek refuge in a neighbouring country, which ironically most often is no better from the country their fleeing from...

So... Right now US with its fledgelings is bombing a nation back to the Stone Age. In a short time we will have a lot of dead peasants their kings either fleeing or heroically perished during the battles. After the corpses are buried, the US will form another dictatorship in Iraq, one that favours US. Then the war propaganda showing how justified the war was after all will start to flood the media. A happy ending after all. And after ten-twenty years, when this new dictator turns his back to the US, George W. Jr. will be there to save the day again.

What I hope is, that the people responsible for this will get comfort from their money once they get to spend an eternity in torment.

Update: The German chancellor Mr Schröder and the minister of foreign affairs Mr Fischer have just been sued for supporting an offensive war. Rightly so.

Weren't Germany against the war?
But in the latest news Iraq fired a couple of scuds into Kuwait, but the Americans claim to have taken them down with Patriot missles.

The Germans voted against the war in the UN and there are also no German soldiers involved, but our government supports the war by other means. Missiles have been delievered to Turkey, the US army were granted a lot of rights, like using German air bases and flying over German territory. All that could maybe be called 'structural support'. Even planning an offensive war is specifically forbidden by our constitution.

I assume that part of your constitution was written after world war 2???

Yes - the whole constitution was (apart from the later changes of course...).

But can't a preemptive war be counted as a form of defence?
and would they still be sued if the Un supported the war?
also is it really that hard to fly around Germany

That's for the courts to decide. Personally, I'm sure nothing will come out of it, but not because this war is indeed 'preemptive' (as if there was something like that)...

It depends. The UN supporting a war doesn't automatically mean it's not against the German constitution. The chances would be way slimmer then of course.

That's not an argument. If one country doesn't grant another the right to use its airspace, they have to fly around - no matter how fussy it is for them!

Correction: German soldiers are involved in this war. They're flying in AWACS planes operating from Turkey and there are tanks in Kuwait. Our highest court decided in 1993 that every so-called 'out of area' (out of NATO territory that is) mission has to be approved by parliament in advance. That didn't happen. It's a clear case, but nothing will happen of course.

Edited by Mr Creosote at 13:11 on March, 20th 2003

Asylum seekers dont come to Europe with airplane tickets, there are 10,000 of the worlds 'poorest' arrive here (UK) every month - for the past two years Britain has taken more than any other industrialised nation and most of them have been Iraqis. There are now over 500,000 Iraqi's asylum seekers in the UK, its the 3rd largest ethnic minority here behind Indian, and Pakistani. They managed to get here somehow without paying, stowawayed, back of a lorry, walk through the Channel Tunnell, somehow but just because they are poor doesnt stop them from geting here.

Interestingly enough, you wont see a single one in an anti-war demonstration and every one you speak to will be very pleased that the US is finally taking care of Saddam. That doesnt mean they (or I)think carpet bombing the place is a good idea, but those 500,000 immigrants will all speak with one voice when on the subject of the leader himself. Hes a nutter, and the world will be a better place without him.




Isnt the USA a fledgeling of Britain? I cant remember us starting a war of independance against our mother country, nor can I remember the Americans passing onto Britain their system of Government and Justice, nor can I remember America keeping the marauding French at bay to the north in Quebec until the fledgeling was old enough to defend themselves

Some oil wells are on fire... looks like the Iraqis are fighting back a lot more than most here seemed to think, but I don't think it's surprising. I hope the people that support the realize what's going to happen... deaths. It's my opinion that some amount of people will become against the war once it really starts going, and war shows it's ugly face.

Just saw a report on TV saying while 24 hours ago, more than 50% of the US population were against the war, now 70% are for it. How stupid is that?

Very.

I'd like to know the source of those polls and the margin error. Just curious.

I don't know about the statistical basis, but they basically said many people who had been against the war before now said that now that it has been started anyway, they're fully supporting the president in whatever steps he deems necessary.

That's actually a pretty pragmatic approach. Until a final decision has been reached, people expressed their opinions. Now that all is said and done, people want to go over with it as soon as possible, which is why they offer their full support to the war.

Weve had people hancuffing themselves to tracks in Londons main train stations and stuff like that. Demos are gearing up. Bloody chaos if you want to get anywhere! I'm glad I'm not commuting.

I dont think opinion is swinging like in America. If anything its swinging the other way.

Yeah, we have the whole blocking of the main streets scheduled at 3:30, marching on the state capital after that. I'd like to see that, but unfortunately I have to 'work'.

But, yeah, it's not like Bush is all of a sudden going to say, "Oh yeah, some of you don't support the war. I'll stop now."

NetDanzr: Pragmatic, huh? You should rather consider what the message to your government is: ignore what we're saying and just do what you want - we'll approve it eventually anyway. Nice concept of democracy.

fretz: Same here. There were spontanous mass protests in the big cities, most notably Berlin and Munich.