This afternoon there was a demonstration here, too. When I arrived at the main train station later, the traffic on the streets was blocked by another demonstration, as far as I could see it was a group of some hundred Kurds.



As for legal consequences that would have to be made, Great Britain has to be excluded from the European Union. By joining, they agreed to accept the UN "law of nations", which prohibits an offensive war. Moreover, Poland has sent 200 soldiers, meaning they actively participate; therefore, their planned accedence to the EU in 2004 has to be taken back. Again, nothing of that will happen...




Yes, sure. The process was stopped right in the middle of the discussion because the US wasn't able to buy any more countries. .

Edit: Of course I don't mean countries, but governments.

Edited by Tapuak at 21:27 on March, 20th 2003

That is the power of propaganda. Here in Finland, there is a strong opposition against any plans for NATO-membership. However, if elite wants us in NATO, I am sure that they?ll manage to pull it out. Enough good press, enough publicity, enough various ?experts? saying how the time of neutrality is over? And all we need is some little indecent in... say, Russia, for example ? a good straw man argument to smite people with. And suddenly everyone will be pro-NATO.
Though somehow I feel that the new war-survey is in fact another product of the PR-factory of the supernation. Majority wants war. The majority is always right. I want to be a part of the majority, too!

Before shelling out the Patriot missiles, 13 Iraqi SCUD's wounded 115 people and damaged 2700 apartments. Once the Patrit-missiles were taken out, SCUD-Attacks damaged 7800 apartments, wounded 168 and killed one. And that's not even all of it - Patriots that missed their target did blow up causing even further damage. But in American press they are always 100% accurate, aren?t they?
And for the Oil-deposits being torched, that is a blatant lie according Iraq and Reuters officials. Sometimes I really wonder how so transparent lies can go through in US. The same lies that US public believes go through in the Congress as well. You probably have heard about the incubator-scheme already. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html) There are tons more of those? World is such an absurd place to live at times.

Boy, now I'm confused. Were part of the European Union???? I thought we were American.

Dont Europeans have that strange new-fangled currency. The Youro?

If we are Europeans, then why do all the kids in my country speak with an American accent? ...and why is 80% of the TV broadcast here American? And why is 99% of the food we eat American?

You must have it wrong. We joined 'the Union' but it wasnt the European one

The problem is that we won't ever see the ugly face of this war. The pictures are either censored by the Iraqi or the US government, whose credibility is equal to zero. "Tongking Incident" in Vietnam, "incubator babies" and censored pictures in the Gulf War 1991, not a single picture from the war in Afghanistan, "Saddam Hussein is responsible for September 11th". So if the officially censored material won't show any truth, do you seriously expect Fox News to show any ugly pictures?



You can never be sure of the accuracy of such polls. Either the US citizens are completely dumb and manipulable and change their opinion every day, or the polls are fake. But even if the results showed constant numbers, it wouldn't mean they're true. And they don't become any more true just because every TV station reports them, either. The only thing to be sure of is that the vast majority of people in the world is against this war, for what reaons ever. The only exceptions are the US and probably the UK.

Last I heard was that a vast majority of the British people was against the war. Even the government is already diminished with several members resigning in protest.

Since almost the begining of time wars have been fought by the propaganda machinesof the various participants.
The US 'censor' so much of what they tell the public, and both sides here lie about everything take the helicopter downing this morning my time, the Iraquis claim they shot it down whilst the Americans claim it was just a crash either war 16 soilders died.
I also saw a picture today of Rumsfield shaking hands with Saddam just after agreing on a pirce for the chemical weapons the UD sold Iraq during the Iran Iraq war, the same Chemical weapons this whole issue is suposedly about.

Edited by sterge10 at 11:12 on March, 21st 2003

Its difficult to tell. If you read a newspaper that is against the war, like The Mirror, their polls will show 70% against. But if you read a newspaper that is pro-war, like The Sun, the polls will show something like '60% back Blair and rising'

Television is probably the most accurate source because by law in UK they are not allowed to have/show political preferance, whereas most of the newspapers have strong political allegience's (even though on the war issue, their allegiences are ironically reversed). The problem is, I havent seen them discuss any polls since the bombing started.

We did have the worlds largest anti-war demonstration in Feb with more than 1million on the streets in London. That was the biggest demonstration Britain has ever seen.

As for the government they voted in favour of war 380 - 210 approximately. And yes, weve had 1 very senior polition resign plus a few others who arent really as important.

That's not the government, but the parliament

Secretaries of state are important - often way more than their own ministers in fact. Besides, what does age matter in this? And how often have several members of the government resigned at the same time for the same reasons as long for as you can remember? Let's face it: before someone in such a position resigns at all, a lot has to happen!

I didnt mean senior as in 'age'. Senior as in their position.

The biggest hitter to resign was Robin Cook - Leader of the House of Commons. Secratary of State for Homeland Defence is not really a senior cabinet position, but yes, a cabinet minister none the less.



There were lots of resignation during the last conservative goovernment for sleaze issues and 'cash for questions'. All these were kind-of linked but not the exact same issue. I cant remember a single issue in the past that has caused multiple resignations.[/quote]

The case against the German government has already been closed before opening it (surprise, surprise). The 'argument' by the courts is that the AWACS planes aren't directly involved in any fighting. Yeah, they only collect data to coordinate murdering...

Here is an interesting point guaranteed to seriously piss off the Americans (should the eventuality occur)

If Saddam Hussein is captured by the UK military and not the US forces, then Britain will hold him and refuse extradition to the US, unless the US guarantee that the death penalty will not be imposed (which is unlikely).

This is because the UK will not pass on a criminal (war or otherwise) to a nation that supports the death penalty because we dont do it ourselves.

Hmmm. I wonder what that would do to US / UK relations? if it happened.

It will not come to that situation, because if Saddam Hussein was captured by the British army, they'd either immediately kill him or immediately (and silently) hand him over to the American army.

Just wondering, did American/British bombers hit an oil refinery in Iran last night or did I hear that wrong?

Meanwhile, the Belgian government is so depressed over the apparent 'failure' of the EU to act as a whole that they're planning to start rebuilding European defenses, together with France and Germany... Way to go boys, fight fire with fire! So long 'pseudo-pacifism'! If I end up in military service because of this, we'll see if belgian soldiers are really - and this is supposedly a quote from the Wall Street Journal - 'only good at fighting bad breath'... Why would you want to fight your bad breath when you're in the military anyway? In my case, desertion is a far more likely scenario.

@Mole

That european military thing has been on the cards since the trouble in Yugoslavia started and we(europe) had to beg America to help out.

The way the US army is being really dumb, it sadly looks like the war will take a while. Today an attack happened on a command post IN Kuwait where a couple of people rolled some grenades in the commander's tent, then shot the people as they ran out of it. With the Turks coming into northern Iraq, this looks to get really messy. This whole thing is depressing, then outside we have a pro-war march and an anti-war march going head to head. Meanwhile, I caught a little blurb on the news that the US is practicing war games in South Korea to see if they can fight in two places at once. You know, screw all this made up politics crap. They say when an idea has been around long enough, it becomes a real, tangable thing to most people. Screw the media, it's just a group of people making money. It's not a public service. Even public service isn't truly real. Also these made up rivialries. We don't live long enough to have to take that crap. Whatever reason made these things happen was a long time ago, and are only fired up by politicos so people don't band together in one big group. Man, it's burges is what it is. It's 1984, all made up. The only thing that is real is the dirt.

Workers of all lands unite!

Sorry, couldn't resist Actually I agree with most of what you said - it just sounded a bit like some stuff I read on transparents on the demo yesterday.

Heh, yes, a lot of what I said seemed like a Marx doctorine or something, even though I don't agree with the man. It just seems like the world is heading to a looney bin and nothing is going to stop it. You'd think after the world trade center, terrorist alert would slowly go down with time, but it's done anything but that here. I think it's just the government keeping us in constant fear so will be "loyal" to whatever they do. Plus since then, nobody has really been commenting on the internal structure of the country, such as how the government repeated takes money from the social security, and the baby boomers (All the people born right after WWII, a huge influx of new babies) are starting to reach the age of much medical attention. It also makes me mad that there are people here that don't care what the US is doing in the world. They care more about who's having a baby on "Friends". Something that is 100% fictious!

OMG!1111!1!!!!1! SOMAONE IN FREINDS IS HAVNG A BABY?!!!!?!!? LOL WHO????!?? OMG LOL

"Heading to"???

There are far more important issues going on in the world than this war you know. Like why your 'shift' key isnt working properly Mr Creosote.

I'd get that looked at if I were you.